I started this in the "What's up with PayPal" thread, but figured I should go ahead and get my own going instead of hijacking someone elses thread Besides, after considerable work, I've discovered my problem is with eBay and not PayPal.

I had two items sell late Wednesday night and Thrusday. Because of the holiday, I waited until Friday to print postage and ship. When I logged into PayPal, there was a message at the top of my account that stated

Quote::

"While you establish a successful sales history on eBay, in most cases, funds from eBay sales are available in 21 days - or sooner, based on how you ship the order. To help get your funds faster, print your shipping labels on eBay or PayPal, upload your tracking information, or mark the items as shipped on eBay. If your buyer reports a problem, it may take longer to get your funds.

The issue is, I've been an eBay seller since July 11, 2001. I have over 600 feedback, 100% positive. I've never been late with paying my seller fees or anything like that.
Next to each auction payment was a link saying "Completed- Funds Not Yet Available." Clicking on that link gave me this window:



It's completely unacceptable that my money is being held like this. I'm a good customer! So, I called PayPal to get this hold lifted and find out why it was placed. I spoke to a very nice lady who reviewed my PayPal account and said that I'm an outstanding customer and I shouldn't have this hold on my account. She then said it was eBay placing the hold and not PayPal, so she transferred me.

The guy she transferred me to was less than helpful. He was one of the most unprofessional customer service reps I have ever dealt with. He kept pausing, saying uh... uh... uh... and generally sounding like he was making things up as he went along. He finally settled on the line of "that is eBay's new policy and it affects all sellers. We can not remove the hold because it is policy. The funds will be released when the items have been received." I explained that one of the items was shipped by International First Class and that it is impossible to track International First class. He insisted that it could be tracked because there was a tracking number when I printed the label. I explained that the number was a customs form number, not tracking. And again, he told me that I would get my money when the tracking told them it was delivered. We kept going in circles like this for a couple minutes, repeating the same thigns to each other. No matter what I tried, he wouldn't budge. Eventually, I got quite frustrated, asked what country he was in (he claimed he was in California) and told him how unprofessional he was being and that he wasn't listening to me. All he could do was repeat the same stupid line about policy. He had me so upset that I was almost crying and I just hung up on him.
That totally wasn't the best way to handle a service call, on either of our ends. I should have stayed calmer and not let my frustration get the better of me.

Later, I called eBay again to try to figure this out. The first person I spoke to was extremely nice and helpful. She told me that the hold was placed because I was classified as a sub-standard seller due to low DSR ratings. Four buyers had recently marked my shipping as too high, which dropped me to 4.8 out of 5. After reviewing my account, she said that I have a great selling record and the block should be removed, but that she couldn't do it and would have to transfer me to Trust & Security.

This transferred call went over as well as the first. This time, it was a woman with a sour attitude. I told her that I needed the block removed today because I need my money to pay bills. She kept telling me that I needed to get my DSR rating up and the block would be removed the next time my account was reviewed. Then I told her that I needed eBay's Escrow License number so I could file a report with State Division of Banks and the Attorney Genera's offices of California and Ohio. This is when she started getting very defensive and stating that those numbers could not be handed out to the public, the holds would not be removed, and that I would have to just deal with it. Then I got all upset again, said "Screw you, Screw eBay, Goodbye. You've lost me as a customer."

I should not have acted like that. In my anger at the unjust holds placed on my money, being treated like I was useless, and complete lack of help, I forgot that I was talking to another human being and nobody should be treated like that. I'd apologize to her if I could, but I honestly don't even remember her name.

So, being the glutton for punishment that I am, I called a THIRD time the same day after cooling off. This guy just hung up on me. Probably a good thing he did, because I was still riled up from the first woman. I let this one slide and didn’t call back a third time because it was time for dinner with hubby and our bowling league night.

After bowling, I went home, took a hot bath, and meditated until I was finally calmed down enough to decide what to do. I was wrong in my actions towards the eBay and PayPal representatives and the companies are completely unjustified in their actions towards me. Two wrongs do not make a right and I need to remember that.

So, where do I go from here? The way I see it, I have a few options. I can decide not to pay my seller fees on eBay and probably get away with it because it will cost them more than $7 to go after me for it, but then I’ll always know that I walked away from a debt just because I was mad. I can bite the bullet, bend to their will, and continue to sell on eBay until I can get the DSR ratings up. I can go on a massive campaign to prove how wronged I was and glean all the pity I can, but that doesn’t do anything other than soothe my pride. Or, I can buckle down and get my website re-designed to move my sales there, have a grand Christmas sale here, and get advertisements for my Etsy store out. I can wait until my $60 is released and walk away from eBay forever, never to buy or sell on there again.

I think the last choice sounds the best. I’ll be out of town for the weekend, but I’ll be back on Monday and getting more of my stuff listed here.

Here's one last parting thought and a question for you all. eBay gives sellers 50 free listings a month. What do you think about creating a graphic that advertises my Etsy store and the Arena and listing it as a pony auction 50 times a month? Is that being too passive-aggressive against eBay or using my brain and advertising on the very site that has decided they don't want my business? I'm kind of conflicted on this one and any help is appreciated!

If you made it to the end of this, you deserve a cookie

I read it all - cookie please!

*Massive hugs for you* it sounds like you are having a terrible time!

I'm so sorry this happened to you, I don't know if I can be much help with advise as I have never sold anything on ebay so don;t realy know the details of how it all works. What I can say though is I think its crazy to describe a DSR of 4.8 out of 5 as bad!!!

It sounds to me like the paypal/ebay reps don;t know what they are doing half the time, and even if half of what they say about ebays policies is true then I think its very sad that ebay are making it progressively harder and harder to sell things, and ultimately thats bad for buyers too.

Unfortunately, if ebay policy keeps going in that direction, I think you might be forced to close your account and sell elsewhere.

As to advertising your site via a listing on ebay, as much as I like the idea of it being a poke in the eye for ebay, I can see it getting pulled pretty quickly!

I feel for you, I hope you are able to resolve it whatever way you choose

Jem

Yay cookie

Just came from the other thread - still such a ridiculous situation. Yeah it's insane that 4.8 is below standards! I would have been fuming, and probably yelled several times. It's really unacceptable :/ I hope things get sorted for you soon

So...I'm assuming that "standard" must be the same as "perfect" because 4.8 out of 5 being below standard is utterly ridiculous.

First of all, I will state that when I feel I've been treated unfairly, I will not usually back down from a company like e-bay. So I think you need to get them to release the hold on your money because they are being unfair. I would honestly try to file a report against them as well so that you can use that against them the next time you call. That may sound harsh, but it's also unfair the way you have been treated and at this point, I think you need to let them know you are serious.

If you don't think you can stay calm during another call--totally understandable--is it possible to have your husband call them? You can always stay right there should he need to hand the phone over to you, but it might be helpful for you guys to tag-team them.

From what I found, the maximum number of occurrences for a 1-2 on shipping on the detailed ratings, is 3. You're only one over that from what I understand, and have a good history. So I mean, really....they're overreacting. Also, I found this on their seller performance help page:

Quote::

What happens if you don't meet the standards? If you don't meet the minimum performance standards, your search placement will be lowered and there may be limits to your selling activity until your ratings improve. You may also be restricted from selling items on eBay if your performance falls significantly below the minimum requirements. If you have a Premium or Anchor eBay Store and have been below standard for 60 days, your Store may be downgraded to the Basic level. If your account doesn't meet the standards, you: Need to resolve all issues on the account before buying or selling with other accounts Can't register for a new account Can't use an existing eBay account to avoid buying and selling limits or other policy consequences Learn more about using multiple accounts. For guidelines on meeting buyers' expectations, see our selling practices policy.

It doesn't say anything about having your funds on paypal withheld anywhere. At least not on that page.

I can totally understand you wanting to take a less confrontational approach--especially if it's too stressful to do otherwise. I just hate them getting away with this because it does not seem fair at all.

Grrrr.....I hate DSRs....all it takes is one grumpy and over zealous buyer and you can go from a 5 mark to 4.8 easy....

I dont understand how ebay can expect sellers to maintain perfect DSRs - multinational companies with thousands of staff cant maintain a perfect online retail presence so why should we as individuals be expected to do this.

To be honest....I just dont understand it any more...how does doing this to sellers [the people who make them the money buy paying their listing fees and a percentage of their sales price] make any sense to ebay?

Oh and now I have hijacked your thread with my rant....my apologies and virtual {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}....I also vote in favour of calling back and shouting but that can be as frustrating as simply sitting it out.

It's just how it is, unfortunately. I was affected out of no where by those stupid holds, and the way I made it go away was a free shipping / ship REALLY fast combo. I made trips to the post office every day... and all packages were sent out within 24 hours. It took 2 weeks to get rid of that hold.

I hate DSRs--- they make NO sense--- and even more, it sucks how ONE transaction can hurt you, but, that's how it is. (sigh)

I mean if the rule is to have higher than a 4.8/5.0 rating, it sounds fair they are holding your money, if that's the reason. (I mean it's NOT fair, but it's fair by their rules that we all have to agree to). The best way out of it is fast shipping / free shipping combo...

Oh dear :S This is horrible!
It bothers me so much to see that people with your reputation on ebay that have been members there for 10 years have to go through all of this! I got screwed over by them years ago and I never went back, but I was new and inexperienced and it was easy for them not to care if I just left, but this, this is unacceptable!
The way I see it, if you have the time or will, I would do what Eshkenazi said and file a report and try to get this squared out.

If you don't have the energy to deal with this, I say, just leave them. Wait till you get your money and get out of there :S

In any case, they don't deserve you as a customer! and a company like Ebay should have better customer service!

Chocolate chip cookies for everyone!

Thanks for the support. It really means a lot to me to know the pony community stands behind me on this. You guys are always great for cheering me up and lending support when needed.

I called eBay again on Saturday on my way out of town. I spoke to a rep named Ria and she was super friendly. She said my funds would be released within 24 hours! I did a happy dance and spent a nice weekend with the in-laws, thinking this whole mess was over. When I got home last night and checked PayPal, the holds were still there. I called back today and spoke to Wen (anybody else thinking we’re not getting full names for the reps?), who was your typical eBay rep. She could only repeating that I needed to get my DSR rating up and the restrictions on my account would be removed. After 15 minutes of this, I told her that she was no help and I had to go. Thankfully, I was able to remain calm, explain my situation clearly, and notify her of my intended actions.

I have already filed reports with the Attorney Generals office of California. I figured since eBay is treating each transaction as an individual hold, I would file a report for every transaction a hold is placed on. Six reports have to be far more annoying for eBay than just one!

I have already reported my PayPal card as lost/stolen and ordered a new one. This way, eBay can’t charge it for my seller fees and then PayPal pull money from my bank account. I always pay my bills and usually pay them early. However, if eBay is going to arbitrarily put holds on my money, then I can arbitrarily withhold their payment. After some detailed research, I have discovered that eBay does not report to the credit bureau’s. They will sometimes have a collections agency go after the money and the collections agency could report the delinquency. I’m not sure what the amount is that eBay decides to put a collections agency on a case, but I currently owe less than $20. Fingers crossed that I’m safe here!

Because it’s the DSR’s that are causing me these problems, I went through my selling history and e-mailed the following to everyone that hadn’t left me feedback yet:

Quote::

Hi! Thank you for your purchase and a great transaction. I have already left feedback for you and would really appreciate it if you could leave positive feedback for me as well. It would be a HUGE help if you could mark a 5 on ALL the DSR’s. eBay has recently rated me a sub-standard seller because of a "low" (4.8) DSR on shipping charges. They are holding all auction payments for 21 days and won’t remove that restriction unless I can get the DSR rating up. Please, please, please help and mark me a 5. Thanks again for your purchase and for (hopefully!) helping me out.

It’s working! I’ve already had two people leave me positive feedback and rate me 5’s. My score is still 4.8, but I’m at least getting the help I need from buyers.

More auctions sold this past weekend and I have two with bids >_< I went ahead and shipped the one that was paid for. One buyer bought five blind bag ponies, but only paid for one. I e-mailed them the following in a PayPal invoice:

Quote::

Hello! Thank you for buying my Blind Bag ponies=) I just wanted to send you a message to see if you would be willing to help me with payment for your purchase. eBay has recently rated me a sub-standard seller because of a "low" (4.8) DSR on shipping charges. They are holding all auction payments for 21 days, meaning I have to ship without receiving my funds. I will no longer be selling on eBay after tonights auctions end because of this. What I want to do to ensure I get my money without a hold is to have you pay this invoice through PayPal for the items instead of eBay's invoice, and I will mark your items as paid in eBay. This way, eBay can't put a hold on the funds and you still get your blind bag ponies. I have marked this invoice with free shipping in thanks for your assistance. If you don’t want to pay this invoice and would prefer to pay through eBay, I completely understand. I’m just really hoping you’re willing to help out a fellow eBayer. Thanks!

I also e-mailed the bidder on the two auctions with bids a similar thing asking if they would be willing to accept a PayPal invoice and pay through that so I won’t have a hold on my funds. I really hope they do.

Paypalsucks.com has phone numbers for the top people in eBay’s Trust & Safety department listed. Since I’m currently at work, I’m going to hold off on calling them. Luckily, the time difference between Ohio and California will allow me to call them when I get off work and still have it be business hours in CA =) I’ll update this thread with how that call goes!

Haha I bet they'll love getting 6 reports! It's your right though surely, if they're treating it as 6 separate things then so should you. It's nice that a couple of people have given you the feedback, hopefully the rest of them will be willing to help. It really does suck that ebay are being so ...meh! about it all!

Fingers crossed for you!

Update time!

I called all of the numbers PayPalSucks.com had listed as 'important' people at eBay in the Trust & Safety department. As I suspected, none of them worked. I'm sure once eBay figured out how people were calling those numbers directly, they got changed.

Rather than give up, I called customer service yet again. Luke was my assistant and he was the nicest service rep I've dealt with yet. He kept saying "Please accept my sincere apology for the inconvenience" and "I am sincere when I say I am sorry about your problems." Now, I know he wasn't sincere, but it was nice that he was at least trying to be a decent human and not treat me like I'm worthless. He kept calling me Cindy, which amused the heck out of me because my name is nowhere near that, but I didn't bother correcting him. I was on the phone with him for at least half an hour, but the results were the same- none. He promised that the holds would be released within 24 hours and they haven't yet.

I think I have thoroughly beat that dead horse into a pulp. No more Customer Service calls for me. No more e-mails, no more reports. I'm done dealing with them directly. Time to play their game, their way. I want to get those restrictions removed so I can sell items such as customs in the future. I honestly don't know where else I can get $168 for a single custom. I hate being stuck like that, but I am.

My plans for the future:

1) E-mail everyone who has purchased from me within the past year and provide links to my classifieds here in the Arena and to my Etsy store
2) Get my website re-designed to where I can sell items from it
3) Use the 50 free auctions to advertise where else I can be found online
4) Use the 50 free auctions to get feedbacks (no item sold , just feedback exchanged)

Yes, numbers 3 and 4 are against eBay policy. If the suspend my account, it's really no big loss to me. I've thought and thought about it, and I don't see anything morally wrong with using their services to advertise my sales. It's the only way that I can come out with a win for both eBay and myself- my DSR star rating goes up so they won't loose my business, and I get the restrictions removed from my account.

If you guys have any suggestions for me, or just want to tell me I'm being stupid for anything, I'd love to hear them!

This is seriously ridiculous!! I´m not exactly sure who bothers me more, the rude ones who immediately let you know that they will not help you, or the "nice", "sincere" ones who basically LIE to you :S:S Woooow, no comment really! Except that any notion I ever had of going back to ebay is now gone, so thanks for letting us know here. If anything, you can feel better that they won't be getting some new customers

As for how you should go about this... I´m neither experienced nor wise enough to give any good advice However, ethics is my field of research and I say that using Ebay for your own ends is not morally reprehensible in this situation!

Also, I applaud your determination to get to the bottom of this, and I´m really sorry it didn't get you anywhere :S And even though you might get more money on Ebay, you should see if it's worth all the trouble they put you through and the fact that you know you can´t rely on them if something goes wrong.

Whatever you do, good luck!!

I think your idea is kind of funny. As long as you have no problems with being banned, who really cares. You won't be hurting anyone and who knows, you might actually fix your problem.

Honestly, I'm interested to see if they notice.

Remember that thing I said way back in the first post about being a glutton for punishment? Well.... I called eBay again. Please, somebody cancel my phone service and lock me up!

Tonight, I spoke to May. I'm noticing a trend with phone reps names... They're all three letter, short names. I'm sure none of them are the reps real name. Another thing I've noticed: call eBay after 6 PM to get the nice people. May was very helpful and very friendly. When she said that eBay values me as a customer, I actually believed her and she didn't sound like she was reading a script. This call wasn't about bashing my head against a wall and trying to get the block removed. If I'm going to be gleaning positive feedbacks to become a "standard" seller again, then I needed to know how many 5 star ratings are required. I love the answer... 3! I only need three individual buyers to leave me a 5 star rating and no more holds!

My account will be reviewed on December 20, so I should easily manage to get three by then. Fingers crossed that May was telling the truth and that I can get two more people to leave me 5 star feedback=)

A HUGE thanks to the member here who has already offered to give me positive feedback. I've PM'ed you!



edit for spelling

I reeaally hope that "May" was telling the truth . Honestly you're doing great not losing it with them after all the rubbish you've had to deal with from them
This whole situation makes me very wary of ebay
Here's hoping the holds do get released soon!

I got a cookie too! I completely agree that this new rule is by far unfiar. I have a 100% rating and I have recently just gotten this hold put on too. I wish there was legal action we could do = where we all file a suit against them. Since now that Ebay owns paypal - it seems to be more unfair.