I still don't get it. By using paypal and/or ebay's services-- we have all agreed to ebay and/or paypals rules. I don't get what is wrong with that, or why it has to be battled. It's up to each individual to educate themselves on the policy-- no matter how many times it is updated.

And

Paypal is not a bank because it "does not engage in fractional-reserve banking." (@_@; I took from wikipedia. )

banditpony wrote:

I still don't get it. By using paypal and/or ebay's services-- we have all agreed to ebay and/or paypals rules. I don't get what is wrong with that, or why it has to be battled. It's up to each individual to educate themselves on the policy-- no matter how many times it is updated. And Paypal is not a bank because it "does not engage in fractional-reserve banking." (@_@; I took from wikipedia. )

You're right, you don't get it

Edit: RPB, my "I don't get it" comment wasn't about your posts...

I don't get what you are talking about. Do I want to explain what? You said you don't get it and I agreed. I'm not going to keep rewriting my points because you don't want to read them. I was talking to Squirmy about a couple points of view that she brought up.

It's all on the same general topic. I stated the reasons with how I feel about Ebay in response to Squirmy. You are bringing up issues that I already addressed.

Your issue about holding money, paypal being a bank or not and why people care about how Ebay/Paypal treats people. Go back to my previous long ranty post. I addressed all those issues.

That has been just a load of crap from the beginning. Yet another reason why I choose not to deal with eBay. It is our choice, BUT I have to point out that eBay has successfully crushed other options for on line sales, so they are the biggest and most profitable option right now. Saying to go somewhere else is very narrow minded and uninformed.

That said, first of all, customer service is NOT allowed to EVER hang up on someone unless that person is being verbally abusive and/or rude. Having someone hang up on you after identifying yourself is completely unprofessional. You should have called and immediately asked to speak to a supervisor. Then you could have apologized for your previous anger and such...but them hanging up on YOU doesn't help the situation!

Second, it's best to report these abusive actions, so I'm glad you did. Sure, eBay and Paypal can put all this crap in their user agreements, but the absolute bottom line is, what other services can we use? Again, Paypal has put most of the other viable services out of business, so they are really the only option. And being linked to eBay...well, to use that for selling, you have to pretty much bend over and take it from both of them. That doesn't make it right, though, and that's the difference!

Holding funds for no reason is nothing more than a company keeping funds to collect on the interest. You can bet there is interest accruing somewhere on this money, and the person waiting for the funds is NOT the one getting the interest! That is one way these companies pad their profits. Just saying "we can hold funds for any reason" is NOT a reason. That is ransom. If they said, "we may hold funds for insufficient ratings, complaints from buyers, etc" that would be acceptable. Then we'd KNOW why our money is not in our accounts. I see the issue being this ambiguous reasoning of "because we can" and that is never a good reason.

The only other thought I had was, you can always let your account sit for the what? 6-12 months until the ratings reset. Then sell one item, get a 5 rating, and you'd be golden according to their standards. If they can abuse their user agreement, then we can too! I do advise against using the 50 free auctions for advertising your own selling site, because they will pull them immediately and no one will see them anyway. Advertise here, and word will get spread. It will just take awhile, unfortunately.

I can say you've definitely done more than I would have, so good for you for sticking with your guns on this. eBay is no longer the fun place to sell, and I really rarely buy from there anymore, as well. It's still the best place to find the best variety, though.

So, all of you that just say "go somewhere else," WHERE CAN WE GO?? Do share, because many of us are sick of eBay, but I for one don't know what else is even close in comparison.

Well, no changes here! Just more running into walls. And a couple of recorded conversations I figure if they can record me, I can record them. I’ll be saving these phone calls for any proof needed in a future class action lawsuit.

There is only one item that has a hold on it at this point. I sold a Fluttershy Puzzle House to a buyer in Greece. She left feedback for me on the 7th, so she has clearly received the item and is happy with it. I called eBay on the 9th to get the funds released and was told that they would be released within 24 hours and was given a confirmation number. Saturday came and no funds, Sunday, today… The hold is still there. I called back today to get the hold released and they said that it won’t be until the post office updates their tracking to show that it was received in Greece.

Since the 15th will be 21 days since payment was received, I’m not going to push the matter any further. I will remove my money from the account at that point in time and no longer sell on eBay. I had hoped to maybe go back in the future, but this whole mess has left such a sour taste in my mouth that I can’t deal with them anymore.

And to update about the eBay fees I owe… Still not paying them until all the holds have been released from my account. All bank accounts associated with eBay and PayPal have been closed and credit cards reported lost/stolen, so they have no way of getting the money from me without releasing the hold. There’s more than enough money being held to pay the fees. They want their money, they’ll have to let go of it first


For those of you might think I’m just complaining about an unfair policy that I agreed to, here is a nice list of why this thread was created and why I continue to keep it updated.

1) The legality of the hold is in question. I was the head teller at a bank for 3 years, so I am very familiar with federal regulations on holding funds. Reg CC states that funds can be held for a MAXIMUM of 14 business days. eBay holding them for 21 calendar days goes far beyond that period of time.

2) I was never notified that my account was in jeopardy of having restrictions placed on it. I was never notified that restrictions were placed on my account. I only found out about the hold after it was placed.

3) It took THREE phone calls to find out why the hold was placed! Customer service is terrible and rude.

4) Even after their criteria have been met, my account still has restrictions and they are still holding my money.

That’s not a load of complaining about something I agreed to; that’s dealing with a company that used to be amazing and is now more corrupt than any politician running for office.

Alternatives? I’m now selling my crafted items on Etsy. I have most of my ponies that are for sale listed in the classifieds here. My January project is a complete re-design of my website so I can sell from there and create a hub for all of my online pony locations. The new website will tie together my blog, DeviantArt account, Etsy store, and Arena listings in addition to providing a Pony Finder service. Huge project;)

Hubby heard something about Serve as a PayPal alternative yesterday. I’ll be looking into that further. I’ll also be looking into merchant services accounts so I can accept credit card payments without having to deal with PayPal at all.

I think the whole point here is to stay optimistic. Yes, my decade long career with eBay has ended, but that just opens up a world of new opportunities!

I think thats... a bittersweet ending? (or is it beginning).

If people really think that paypal / ebay is corrupt, that they should go in alternative directions. Other ways certainly are not convenient, or have as much exposure. ^_^

(For me personally ~ I still continue the route of ebay, because I am still ok to the terms. But OTHER popular conveniences of life, that have had me angry, I have withdrawn from. O: I totally believe if people are that concerned , they should avoid it, I really, really do. ~something~ needs to happen before they will ever change their craziness.)

When I had my money held, I wasn't told why either, but it certainly stopped after my next monthly review. but since there is a stupid loophole that basically says that they can do whatever they want... well... I still agree to it.

Best of luck~ Pony finders sounds interesting. ^_^

Paypal is NOT a bank - it never will be a bank. When your funds are insured and protected by the FDIC, amongst 14 thousand other pieces of paperwork that would make it so, then it would be a bank. Right now, though, if crap hit the fan, and Paypal lost millions of their "client's money" - none of their users would get a penny back.

But.... they are a private escrow service who has found themselves a nice little niche market.

I am starting to understand why they are holding funds - my husband mentioned his theory to me this morning. There is NOTHING to back up Paypal funds in reality- they are just digital numbers that "placehold" in people's bank accounts. Until the currency has been accounted for by the bank, it's just a number - or just another piece of paper. It doesn't exist. So, with people transferring "money" around Paypal like crazy, there has to be a point where they have to stop, consolidate, and actually verify that all those funds are truly backed up by currency somewhere in the system.

So first they have to make sure your money is real. Then they have to make interest off it, because they're not a bank and need some kind of profits to continue.

It still comes back to the fact that they are obligated under law to provide all users with a Terms of Service agreement, which most users agree on. If you don't agree, cancel your account and boycott them. There ARE other options - not as popular or well-known, but it's not a complete monopoly for the secondary marketplace.

However... I do totally understand why sellers are angry and feel very frustrated. I didn't say any of Paypal/Ebay's shenanigans are okay or appropriate - but they are the way they are...

Well said SquirtSquirt. I agree with everything you said. Too many people see everything in black and white. Which is sad because that's how the people in control stay in control and bad policies and laws stay the same. It's the same mentality where if you complain about a law or the state of America people just go "Well move to Russia/Canada". Cause you know, that is the epitome of sense. Not to mention, it's totally possible.

Since boycotting was brought up, I just want to mention that it won't do much good. People don't just drop everything and go "Ok, boycott starts now". Unless you have the ability to speak to millions like Martin Luther King then you probably won't be able to get enough of a following to make a difference.

Plus, for every person that closes their account, another persons whose just starting on Ebay opens up theirs. That's the problem with people who were trying to boycott Ebay years ago.

Although I salute Eskara for leaving Ebay for good. I'm hoping I can do the same within the year. That is, unless some huge changes are made. Also, I've been talking about how Paypal breaks their own rules about releasing funds. Looks like they will never stop doing it. What a big surprise

But in the end boycotting works with neighborhood businesses. It doesn't work with something as large and powerful as Ebay. And that's why people start small claims, file complaints and go the extra mile to make sure large corporations stay fair and honest.

No offense but I don't agree with your husband's theory. I mean, in the end it's just all theories but I don't know if that one really makes sense. If they held EVERYONE's money ALL the time that might sort of make sense. But holding random chunks of money for random people doesn't help much with keeping track of the millions of money they deal with. It just makes them interest. Which they don't need cause they make a hell of a lot of money off fees. And plus, I don't remember signing anything that said they can invest my money.

But yeah, I don't think it has to do with keeping track of what's actual currency. Now and days, lots of things are just numbers and more things are becoming digital. Paypal isn't that different.

I had titled today Monkey Trap Day; but, alas, I did not get to spring my monkey trap. I had reported all credit cards associated with PayPal as lost/stolen and closed all associated bank accounts. The only way eBay was going to get their sellers fees was to release the hold. The 15th of each month is the day they produce my invoice and charge the fees. Well.... They finally released the funds on the pony I shipped to Greece!

So that's it. I have my money, they have their sellers fees and I am now 100% finished with them.

FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats! I am glad you have moved on.

Good job sticking to your guns.

oh my goodness

what a saga, i've been hearing bits & pieces about ebay having changed their policies (again) and that paypal have become rather picky about putting holds on funds but i didnt realise to *quite* the extent it can go on for, i mean six months holding your funds, just becasue they CAN that cant be right

but i'm not going over everything thats already been said as i have read every post *choc-chip-cookie* i am more in stunned disbelief about it all.

however, massive congrats on playing them at their own game and reporting all your cards as lost/stoeln and closing your account in order to finally get them to release that money so they can take their pesky blasted fees. at least they wont have any connection to your new accounts now

and massive cos you totally deserve it for all of this!

ebay does stuff like that to my mom all the time! they place holds on her money and other stupid things and she has to spend HOURS on the phone talking to someone who barely speaks english to try and straighten it out!
ebay can be very hard on sellers, the most recent was her dsr dropped alittle because a idiot blamed her for the post offices mistake and they put a 21 day hold on her money! it took 6 HOURS on the phone going round and round with them to get it lifted!